Michael Arrington interviews democrat senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama.
MA: What is your position on H1B visas in general? Do you believe the number of H1B visas should be increased?
BO: Highly skilled immigrants have contributed significantly to our domestic technology industry. But we have a skills shortage, not a worker shortage. There are plenty of Americans who could be filling tech jobs given the proper training. I am committed to investing in communities and people who have not had an opportunity to work and participate in the Internet economy as anything other than consumers. Most H-1B new arrivals, for example, have earned a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent abroad (42.5%). They are not all PhDs. We can and should produce more Americans with bachelor’s degrees that lead to jobs in technology. A report of the National Science Foundation (NSF) reveals that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans as a whole comprise more that 25% of the population but earn, as a whole, 16% of the bachelor degrees, 11% of the master’s degrees, and 5% of the doctorate degrees in science and engineering. We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America. We should allow immigrants who earn their degrees in the U.S. to stay, work, and become Americans over time. As part of our comprehensive reform, we should examine our ability to replace a stopgap increase in the number of H1B visas with an increase in the number of permanent visas we issue to foreign skilled workers. I will also work to ensure immigrant workers are less dependent on their employers for their right to stay in the country and would hold accountable employers who abuse the system and their workers.
Oh, one more thing,
Abolish L1 – the most exploited route to ship jobs outside. Reason? Look at how TCS/Wipro/Infosys/Satyam operates…. one co-ordinator at onsite on L1 working day and night and others in offshore spending nights to maintain code.
Hi, I am an alien.
In my planet here I would be paid 40K tops (in local currecy), and in the US I have a job offer for 100K. And consider that the conversion rate from US to my planet’s currency is around 2-to-1. So it’s already advantageous for me to go there and stay due to the 150% better salary, and if I have to return after making some savings my money will suddenly be worth 300% due to the low costs of living here.
Globalization is a bitch, isn’t it? First-world countries have used the conversion rate, economic prowess and other dirty tricks for decades to buy entire companies in poor countries like mine for the price of bananas, and now we have to pay $200/month for a telephone service that used to cost $1/month before, and this goes to the US mainly, maybe not to US workers but certainly to US corporations. Free market… long live the lowest bidder and the american corporate/banking cartel which answers to no one but themselves!
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The comment posted above was removed because of its abusive nature.
very good post
“Nothing comes to you as a birth right.. except your own talent, skill, dedication and hardwork.. period.”
First Lets take the situation of an indian in india.. All the politicians are corrupt there, infrastructure is bad.. and compared to america where atleast the taxes paid are put to good use, in india it directly goes into the politician’s pocket.. So an ambitious person who is smart, intelligent and hardworking will look for a better life.. He looks for the easiest way to success.. He sees that in the developed countries of the west us/europe where the amneties, system, facilities are all better. Now lets say these developed countries close their gates completely.. no globalization.. no american companies in india or indian workers in america.. so what will these capable/hardworking people do..? they will try to clean up the scum in their own back yard.. it won’t be as easy as getting a h1 visa and working in US (which is the easier path).. but eventually they will clean up.. and then US will no longer be the number 1.. I am not just making up a statement here, that is just biased or something.. I am saying this based on pure statistics, based on which the future seems pretty obvious.. there are 320 million people between the ages of six and 16 (that is more than the entire US pop) in india. In a decade, India will be home to 800 million people of working age.. So lets say that indians or chinese are ‘cheap labour’ as you put it, who are just willing to slog longer hours for peanuts and are not better qualified or smarter than a ‘native american’.. but even if half of these 800 million are talented and hardworking, that will be double the population of america.. !!! and 4 hands are always better than 2.. so down the lane, maybe after a few years or a few decades.. the sheer size of the working force itself should make these countries superpowers..! so how has the US been surviving as a superpower all these years and how can it continue to do so? why did russia disintegrate and diminish.. capitalism? communism? no.. all that is secondary.. US is the only country in the world where a person from any corner of the world can survive.. in the same street, you can find restaurants that are italian, mexican, american, chinese, french, indian, japanese, thai.. you name it you have it!!! It is a country where discrimination against race, ethnicity is to the minimum.. and as americans you should be proud of it.. and i appreciate and respect each american for that.. for the value that they give to an individual.. and these are the good things that have been keeping america ticking.. america right from the beginning has been a land of opportunities.. where the best from all parts of the world flock in to come and make this place a paradise that they can share and enjoy.. the day it stops this, is the day it will start the downfall.. History shows that there has never been one superpower ‘for ever’.. eventually evrthing that goes up has to come down.. and it is just a cycle..
Indians in US are the 2nd richest community next only to jews and are the highest educated community with more doctrates/postgraduates/graduates then any other community.. this doesnt mean that they are better than people of some other ethnicity, because for every talented indian there are 9 more back in india who are lazy and inefficient.. If US closes its doors, then the same intelligent/efficient person will remain put in india and will try to create opportunities and even get the 9 lazy indians to work efficiently.
Many of the ‘native americans’ on this thread where saying “let the corporates ship the jobs offshore and let the ‘cheap labour’ work from their own third world countries.. we dont want them here clogging up our country.. ” Do you know that US generates 40 % of the waste in the world and consumes 25 % of the world’s energy.. and this is consumed by a mere 5 % of the world’s population..? it fills me up with loath n i am sickened to see this.. every day from each home two huge white garbage bags full of thrash is generated and dumped into the garbage box! and for answering a customer’s 30 dollar router questions as some one put it.., an indian back home will earn 400 dollars a month using which he will feed his retired parents, wife and 2 kids!!! and it is not because things are ‘cheap’ in india.. it is because right from childhood every indian is taught to ‘not waste’ anything.. dont leave the water running, dont waste fuel, use less of plastic and disposable stuff, use stainless steel cutlery, dont waste food… if something is left over give it to the poor old man at the end of the street..
You are worried that 65,000 jobs are being lost by americans or L1 visas are being given by the 1000s.. but you don’t know how many lives are dependent on the same meagre 500 dollars that you pay a month for swearing at an indian that your TV’s remote is not working or your remote’s battery is not working..
If you are unemployed you get social security, food coupons etc…, but you feel your jobs are being ‘stolen’ by foreign labour who are willing to work like slaves.. But why are these people willing to work like ‘slaves’? that is because they need that job more than you do.. you have probably never seen what real poverty is.. there is another side of this world that is lot grimmer, darker and sad than you can imagine.. for u studying 4-5 hours a day for 4 years in grad school with airconditioning, labs and libraries, laptops, gyms, fitness centers, swimming pools etc in the campus is a hardship.. well my own dad used to walk for 4 miles evryday without footwear for 8 years to go to primary and high school before he eventually got his first set of loafers.. Thanks to him I am in a much better position in my life now.. Increasing or decreasing visas, or passing a law is not going to change a damn thing.. if u want to survive.., then listen to darwin.. and get rolling.. do or die.. and like i said..
“Nothing comes to you as a birth right.. except your own talent, skill, dedication and hardwork.. period.”
I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 16 years. I have been programming since I was 15 (25 years) – long before India even had electricity, let alone computers. I was run out of my own industry, my own state, and my own career buy MILLIONS of invading Indians. In 1998 when we Americans were running things, the economy was booming. India bought PR “news” stories in our media of labor shortages so they could jam FOUR MILLION of their grifters into the USA. They took over Silicon Valley. The deal in 1998 was they would go home after the boom. Not only have they not gone home, but they’ve taken over Silicon Valley.
At the same time, they are incompetent. Silicon Valley continues to lose jobs. This is because Indians are taking over jobs formerly done by Americans, and then the Indians can’t do the jobs and the companies all collapse. This is the real reason for the job loss.
And they send their paychecks right out of the country and back to India. Imagine FOUR MILLION workers sending OUR CAPITAL every to weeks. It’s BILLIONS of dollars. These faking frauds come here, work 6 years, move from company to company, destroying everything in their path, then go home millionaires are 28 because of the exchange rate.
There are hardly any white Americans left in Silicon Valley – the same white Americans who created Silicon Valley and IT have been driven out by the Indians. Now that India has TAKEN OVER Silicon Valley, the U.S. economy is collapsing.
I watched Indian programmers every single day ask Americans how to do things. Some Indians don’t have any education at all and their degrees cannot be verified because their schools are deep in the jungles of India somewhere, if not some hellhole garage in the 3rd world.
H-1B and importation of Indian workers is one fo the greatest frauds in the history of the USA.
It’s time to DEPORT all these people NOW. After all, that was the deal when we allowed them in in 1998.
Why should millions of Indians get to have jobs in the U.S. while millions of Americans go unemployed? If your answer is Americans are too stupid, then show me where the Indian operating system is, or name even one software product to come out of India.
Bbo,
Deporting all of them would mean that serious shortfall in workforce in USA. That would trigger the offshoring in a massive scale and eventually within 6 months, you will see that all jobs are moved to India/China. It’s just a foolishness..
However your outrage is somewhat valid, however the solution President Obama is proposing is the correct one. Smoothen out the transition from H1b to Greencard for them, let them work for any employer and let employer directly employ them. Meanwhile also build up skills in STEM area and give tax breaks to US company for hiring US citizens.
I agree with President Obama . America need to hold the foreign workers under H1B Classification as long as they do their degree in America. No need of L1 Program. H1B employees with degree in US are very much capable of doing L1 Jobs.
Actually lots of companies are abusing of the law. And even if that’s bad they actually have loopholes which they look for outside companies to bring contractors.
I can tell from personal experience I was at Microsoft and I saw how they eliminated a whole department of US Citizen and hired more non US Citizens a team which was 25 people and there were only 3 US Citizens. Get’s even worse with all the guys that were outsource in China and India.
So you do the math.
As a project manager I know that in IT is better to have someone with the best skills that can do the work of two(2) no matter the price rather than having cheap labor lacking the skills doing the job of half(1/2).
I’ve personally seem projects FAIL just because of trying to get cheap labor which never gets the best people for the job when there are more than enough qualified US Citizens.
I even seen seminars for HR to have Legal ways to deny work to US Citizens.
I think this looks plain anti-American But I let you guys be the judge.
Just ask US Sen. Charles Grassley or Congressman Pascrell.
Look in http://www.programmersguild.org
Here are the facts
http://www.programmersguild.org/factsheets/2009_H1b_media_fact_sheet.pdf
First of all.. Before you go an bash H1 workers.. Most of them are well qualified and they have at least 7 years of experience. You are telling me that you want to employ an american straight from school who has no field experience another person who has gone through the same american college but the different is that he has gotten experience through internships and all the other sides. Where as the normal american has not tried that. In todays IT world you don’t pick an high school student to do real work as they will bring down the economy. You need qualified people. Yes americans have qualified people but they would be asking for a higher salary. look at it both ways.
You need to stop blaming the H1B program which is only a manifestation of the number of foreign students who come to the US each year to earn Masters or advanced degrees. I am doing a Masters in Electrical engineering at a top 20 US university and I can tell you that in all the classes or research labs there are over 75% Indians and Chinese. Visit any engineering class in any university here for a masters degree and see what I mean. Very few Americans pursue an advanced degree and as a result it is the foreign workers who are recruited by companies to do the jobs that require skills. Why is it that so few Americans are doing advanced degrees in STEM ?
I have seen the F-1 and Masters program being abused by universities as well. Most students who come here to do an MS degree are unfunded and universities make a killing on the tuition and fees. Each year the number of admissions to students from India is increasing because universities realize that these students will come to the US for a better life even if it means paying tuition fees for 2 years.
This is the ground reality and unfortunately unless the overall competitiveness increases, the H1Bs and high tech jobs will go to those who have earned degrees that require them.
BTW I am an Indian student and the company that I will be working for is by no means hiring ‘cheap’ labor. My salary would be 75K after an MS in EE at the age of 23, and is very similar for other students who will be graduating with me this year. That ‘cheap’ labor argument doesn’t hold any water for those that qualify for the jobs.
You all need to watch this :
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=770111630
What are the H1-Bs and large fat cat corporations gonna go after the US dollar crashes?
There is going to be way less consumption in the US, with depressed wages. That may be a good thing, but large corporations and governments all over the planet are going to fall.
Can the wages Indians and Chinese make in their countries feed the multinational corporate beast with its high prices for products? I doubt it.
Inspired INDIAN has said it all…
All you American people bashing H1s ..i guess you don’t even care to read it all rit. Change your life style show more respect to food and natural resources…Its because of us (the so called developing economies) tat you people are able to afford such lavish life styles..an American guy working at burger king will have a car and he has to use his car to buy a candy bar at a store next street..
despite being a poorer country we(indians) pay 4 time more for Fuel…
ahh who am i taking to? you people don’t care rit ..if its there you will find ways to waste it…
I am presently in the US and i see buses drive around in hope tat some one will board them..who wants to wait a min i have my hummer rit…
You people laterally are at the mercy of Chinese reserve bank and walmart is ur life line..go fix tat first
to all Americans a request from a fellow human being…Respect the world my friends and try to learn a bit about it…every one has a life to live…we are all born with the same rights..and please stop squabbling about a few legal workers ….. Please save some money rather than wasting it all on a weekend and bend your backs there is a rough ride coming your way you brought it on yourself no H1 is responsible for your present state..
finally
Be an ant not the grasshopper
if you want a better life….
Peace
I am a H1 worker.the pay i was offered in the beginning is 60000k and it is changed to 45000k due to this economy.Will any American
wish to work for this pay for about 13 hours every day.I don’t understand why you guys go around to blame H1 workers.If you could do this your companies could have hired you rather opting for an immigrant worker.
Hi
I have something to add to the discussion. The whole depressive economic situation is adding to the negativity of some of the remarks here.
I am Indian and I study in an American University in Texas. It puzzles me when I see so few Americans in the department of Computer Science. The reason I feel is that Computer Science is hard and involves long hours of hard study developing your skills. The employers also have high expectations from their prospective employees in the interviews. And most Americans have enough alternatives to choose as a career then become a programmer.
Let me say I have the utmost respect for a lot of American students I have encountered. They are honest, some of their work is top notch and they are passionate about what they do. The Americans in my university enjoy a lot of extra advantages in terms of the scholarships they get and the employment opportunities.
Most Indians on the other hand are here for the money. And by money, I mean the power of the dollar in terms of its exchange rate with the Indian Rupee.
I feel American corporations are the reason I am here. These MNC’s have expanded so much that their interests and revenues require their presence in a lot of countries. So obviously, you would need a HUGE workforce.
Now that you need a huge workforce, you want to employ people. You start looking for qualified Americans. You need 10 people to do the project. And then you see, only 5 Americans graduated out of computer science at your local university. And 4 of them have already been hired for higher salaries by a bigger company. What do you do? Hire the one American remaining and then you have 9 other jobs to fill up. Now who fills up the remaining 9 jobs? Lets import the workforce: give them H1B visas, get them here, the Indians and the Chinese. They don’t mind long hours for a relatively lesser pay because they have lived in harsher living conditions and they would like the comfort America has to offer.
So who’s to blame? no one!
The only way to fight the current situation is to
1. Come down hard on all the illegal recruiters that try to provide H1 workers with substandard skills.
2. Let the companies recruit from those Indians that have studied at a university in the United States. If they have graduated from an American University, they would obviously be skilled enough( this would prevent from people who submit fake skills in their resumes and try to get jobs)
3. Focus on long term Visas. Make sure people that a company really wants to hire are hired for a longer period and given more incentives to become a part of America.
Temporary short term measures are like visiting the prostitute for sex. A worker on a short term contract would never be of benefit in the long run. He would just take the money he earned and return home.
4. Companies should be allowed to tie down foreign workers to contracts that are binding. What I have seen from a lot of my fellow Indians is an alarming lack of loyalty for their employer. They jump the minute they get a slightly better offer from another company. Contracts would allow the company more stability in terms of not losing personnel every 6 months.
And there is one more thing I would like to say to any Americans reading my post. Do not blame a H1-person or any foreign workers for their presence here. We are all being played by a bigger player: Globalization and greedy huge corporations.
And I would like to thank Mike in post# 32. It was enlightening.
No, I am not resident of USA. However, as other engineers, I was interested. However, I thought H1B is largely oppressive and prone to abuse and not attractive in long term.
1. H1B is tied to a company and hence I need to be satisfied with what it gives.
2. Spouse cannot work.
All the above I need to bear till I get permanent residence.
I think to make it fairer, H1B should be available on individual basis so that the individuals can compete on equal basis.
However, let us face it. A company can if it really wants can produce all the software from cheap country like India/China. If the US company does not do it, an european company will do it. Guess what, who will be more profitable. Jog your intentions/business skills. If you were a businessman, where would you base your business.
You cannot be isolated. Call us H1B servant /slaves or whatever. It just means that you think that Indians work hard and you want yourselves to be sitting comfortably. It does not happen that way dear. What you really want is to have not only good economy in US but a strong economy in two highly populous regions. This will ensure that demand will not die down for products and services. For that business needs to expand, people all over the world need to work and earn high money and buy products. In short term, it might mean that it will be lower money for you. Compared to other parts of the world, it will be much higher anyway.
Wakeup, it is globalization. Nobody is immune. Your twin towers falls, I guess I will not be surprised if the native country of the terrorists who planted it would have got affected.
Americans are stupid and lazy, thats why they can’t get jobs!!!
I spent two years getting my Masters degree in India, I will go to America and work for less than the greedy lazy beer drinking fat couch potato!
$45K a year!!! Ill send 30K home and retire in a few years!
Work for less or stay home.
Ravish, that is a very negative response.
If Americans are stupid and lazy, it would not have been a great country.
As I said, there is a great need for both India and US to come out stronger out of the recession. We need to unleash an energy.
Obama seems to be too socialist and likes to receive attention. He does not seem to be a leader that I hoped for.
to Bbo, your comment is the most offensive/racist one according to me, this is wat u said:
“I have been programming since I was 15 (25 years) – long before India even had electricity, let alone computers. I was run out of my own industry, my own state, and my own career buy MILLIONS of invading Indians.”
dude, if they achieved all this in so less time then either they are super smart (which proves highly skilled labor point) or you are super dumb.
secondly, u mite have been programming from last 25 years in COBOL or PASCAL but things got changed in all these years, there is JAVA, ruby on Rails (m sure most of u here bashing indians and IT dont have much knowledge about the latest tech).
Thirdly, wud you guys stay back after 5pm to complete the work ever or is your family always on ur mind including your dog and tomatoes growing in garden. My friend hard work brings success in todays economy and not growing tomatoes unless you are skilled in selling them.
fourth point, why is Govt not looking at call center jobs, why cant u guys stay up in nite and talk on phone, nobody ever starts as manager in a job unless u r working at mcdonalds or BK.
Fifth, why cant u guys manage dunkin donuts or gas stations and clean up plates and serve orders, they are also jobs (which many indians do).
Point is why DOUBLE STANDARDS?
American Greatness comes from freedom and equality at all levels, if you cant understand tht then you r not a true citizen.
America is a country created by immigrants for immigrants and tht is a lesson in history everybody shoud have.
If you are so righteous give ur jobs to American Indians.
If immigrants are reduced or thr arrival is hindred in anyway thn it will be difficult even for GOD to SAVE AMERICA.
Go figure the truth on how those H-B’s (Indians) really think of us(ravish). As for The “Cool One” if you’re so educated learn how to spell correctly.My gosh you would not believe the amount of misspelled words and terrible grammar I encounter on a daily basis; and this is handed off to customers. I work within a team and I might add, the only American citizen (Just a quota) and I am the only one who can script, troubleshoot correctly etc.. Oh by the way I have 15 years of experience. Not to mention every time I have an idea, that is good and will better the company the first words out of their mouth is, “No, No, No, No, No” My god man learn how to say something versus, “No, No, No, No”. I don’t think Americans are mad that Indians have jobs here in the US…. I think it is the discrimination. For crying out loud listen to the American-Indian, not Native American but yes American-Indian who posted above by the name of Student, who cant even land a job here in his own country; that prove my point.
This notion that Indians are smarter than Americans is the corporate strategy to make everyone believe this nonsense. If you want to debate the American experience in the IT field this is the cause and effect of hiring H1-B’s only for so long, for you supposedly highly educated people out there, I hope you know cause and effect.
One other note, if the H1-B’s are so smart why don’t they build their own country and contribute to the global economy. Do not feed us Americans ”This is the land of immigrants” crap…the immigrants that landed here in the past came to America to live AS AMERICANS!, there was no turning back to their homeland, they accepted and wanted the U.S to be theirs.
There is terrible discrimination within the U.S IT field since this H1-B phenomenon started. There are now Indians that are managers only hiring H1-B Indians….this is ridiculous.
Don’t take me wrong I am not a racist but it is hard not to be prejudice when you are discriminated against for so long.
Just a note America brought great minds from foreign lands to better the country i.e. Albert Einstein, Konrad Dannenberg and so on. By no means are these H1-B’s in question are bringing great fruits to the country
to food for thought,
you r so preoccupied with ur superior english language (a false and stale thought probably coz of food you eat) that u forgot tht u r on a blog and not in an essay competition. as far as my english capabilities r concerned I have TOEFL 100% and GRE 750/800 in verbal exam to back it up even though its not my mother tongue now think abt urself, I can challenge u for a vocab drill and u probably will not be able to answer most questions.
but again nothing personal, instead of learning from Indians u wud rather bash thm for spelling bcoz it hurts ur ego (false ego).
The point is as long as ppl not give this superiority complex they will suffer coz if your are great sumbody greater is waiting to take over frm you.
So how wud you tackle tht: simple try to excel in ur work so as to reach greater heights and not try to undermine others.
regarding great minds frm foreign lands, go back ur family tree and tell me which great lineage you belong too as u also r an immigrant (assuming ur not American Indian)
FYI American Indians are Native Indians and Indian Americans are Indians who took American Citizenship. Some food for thought.. lolll
In the whole post of “Food for thought” all tht he talks about is others comments and does not bring anything new onto the table, tht shows probably you need some food for thought, for sure.
dude nobody is saying only Indians r smart, a lot of americans r 10 times smarter thn some Indians and these guys r working at very high positions. You can’t generalize, not all indians r equally smart but those on h1b are surely smart.
I am reading way too much about how the H1B folks are being abused by being in America..
One post on this page went so far as to say that Americans have enslaved the H1B people..
Lets get a few things straight-
1) You are not a slave, you can leave or stfu.
2) Being here does keep an American from having YOUR job. Its not likley they would ship over seas.
3) L1 needs to be abolished, H1B needs to be damn hard to get for both corporate and people.
And let me use this last comment to retouch on point one I made.. Anyone caught bitching that they are so sad being on H1B and how they are abused should simply leave. Just leave. Go away. Your not a slave, you can set your affairs in order, quit the job and leave. Your nothing more than a victim of your own choice that you continue to make over and over. Get off the cross kiddo.
“I am a victim of the life I have made and I refuse to make a change due to the options. I like my crappy life more than other options and someone must be to blame, it must be the nation that is offering me the best crappy life available to me.”
Let me be the first to apoligize for you having a job. Its truly a shame. Now leave the nation, please, for both of us.
Again…Cool, you can not spell.
again Food for thought (or no food for thought or deprived of food for thought or frustrated food for thought), you are very STUPID, so please keep helping others and remain stupid…..
hahaha…..
Hi,
I am an H1B holder from India – agreed. many service oriented countries unlike the western product oriented category – rely on bigger economies to thrive on – that is how we run our bread and butter.
The milk has been spilled. In the interim of this harsh decision being made – many foreign workers have invested sums of money back home to get here. I particularly do not care about H1B holders who got here through their firms in India/China etc. I am concerned about students who invested in this country. Got educated here – loaned money from banks here or back home to the equivalent of a minimum – +/- 70 k.
There was a dream. The dream was sanctioned in a better economy and it was encouraged by the American govt.
If a major chunk has to be sent back or whatsoever – I dont think they should be the ones who boosted or contributed to the economy. We atleast got here and paid a price.
I am an Indian Who Did Masters in USA from a pretty good University. I have a Job now H1B (I am lucky it’s not easy to get one).
+++ Why US governenment NOT cutting down on F-1 (Student Visa) – Why is no one talking about it?
Ans–> Tuition fees OK. US government Extract
excessive fees from foriegn student (3-4 times ) more than an American student . So money comes from India/China to US – just to improve the facilities in US universities. There are strict restrictions for these students – they cant work. They beg for a $7/- an hour job in Burger King in their gradschool. So its struggle. When an average American student drives a BMW to gradschool – a foriegn student rides a bike (bi-cycle) or he walks . Above all they pay huge tuition fees. So why are you guys not seeing this part. You are getting incoming $$$ from a foriegn Visa Program. This is improving your economy.
+++Lets be Fair – What is wrong in giving these students 20,000 H1B Visas a year ?
Ans:- They have already invested 30-40 K in Tuition fees in USA. I feel they should be given a chance to work and enjoy in this country. Atleast to pay off their Debts back home, which they incurred while graduating in this country.
Jacob,
They are not cutting F1 because its not about kicking people out, its about job preservation.
You say that the foriegn students beg for jobs in fast food – so do most students. I don’t know of any early 20′s student making six figure, or even half that.. Even one third of that…
Your way, way off point that the avarage US student drives a BMW to school. Offendingly off reality. I think perhaps you only notice them, because I went to LOTS of school and NEVER had a friend with even a used BMW…. My car was… Oh wait, I rode the bus for SEVEN YEARS, I couldn’t afford a bike – you lucky cry baby. BTW my family is far from poor, we’re just not spoiled. No different for most kids I knew.
to your +++… You so madly fail to seperate H1B from Student visa its nutters. Just because someone gets to study here should not be a goldcard to have their lives spent here working. We don’t make money off an H1B working in the US, which you elude to earlier in your post, its a sacrafice to let others come here and benefit from the nation.
As far as their student debts – The people of this nation appear to owe visiting students, which is immature to suggest. I don’t feel the nation owe’s you for your studies here, the citizens in this nation should not sacrafice jobs for themselves because you were kind enough to study in our nation.
Joshua,
I do feel for that situation when presented that you are facing a debt to overcome. Many americans are hundreds of thousands in debt because, lets face it, life sucks right now.
How do we seperate one persons debts from another as a cause for helping them though. I am confident that its not just visiting students with student debts upwards of 100k and beyond.
Sadly, this is not an easy time for everyone and when there are 5 jobs for 7 people, there has to be a choice made about the other two.
A) Americans that starve?
B) Americans told to find work in another nation?
C) Americans told to fight their way through as equils to non-Americans?
Its not nice and I don’t blame anyone thats offended by it, its pretty crappy. But the truth is that its hard as hell on those two people and its not easy to see how ‘job preservation in america’ is not followed with ‘for americans’.. We’re not forcing greencard citizens out, they have gone through the lengthly process to show they want to stay here long term.
This is addressing people, I know two just like this, that come here and want to be H1B because they don’t like Americans but want to gain from the nation. They are not supporting this nation because they are ‘saving money to leave and never speak to any of us again’ because our money will let them retire early. That money is not helping our economy when its shipped overseas.
The policy is not even aimed to remove active H1B. This is only to prevent future H1B to help fight our unemployment rate…. So… Please someone explain where this is so unfair?
Think of it this way:
‘Our nation is growing short of food for our people, we can not allow the normal influx of hungry people from elsewhere who want us to share the food’
Its all love, but self preservation as a nation is an importiant consideration in reality. Getting back to reality – it sucks for everyone in the world right now, if you haven’t noticed, life is shitty these days.
BTW Joshua,
I do fully respect your point, its just that as my last line said – things are bad all over. We’re all rapidly loosing our stability in all corners of all lives.
If you think in terms of numbers, there are currently about 150 million people in the labor force in the US. The yearly cap for new H1B visas is 65,000. This is just a drop in a sea … so all this “immigrants are taking our jobs” is a little stretched if not ridiculous. Plus, we live in a global economy, times are changing, get used to it.
More numbers:
- a person can stay on H1B for a max of 6 years. That means that at any given time, there are 390,000 H1B holders.
-the number of bachelor degree holders is about 25% of the working population which is roughly 37,500,000 people. So, the H1B visa holders represent about 1% of the total bachelor degree holders in the US.
-In my opinion, that’s a pretty poor reason to blame the H1B holders for bringing down the salaries for americans or for taking their jobs. And this is especially since they come here educated and therefore the US doesn’t have to invest anything in their education. So, a gain for the US from the start.
No Pun intended to anyone on this or any forum. I just thought Ill send this around
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090303/bs_bw/feb2009tc20090228990934
I agree with Dora , I am an H1B visa holder. From my experience what I have seen for an H1 B visa holder is that …they are best of the breed. Moreover they work here for only 6 years .So that does not really cause a job loss. H1B visa holder comes to USA to get a better opportunity to get a better pay . They are quite hard working and are available for cheaper rates . For those who are not happy for H1B visa workers ,pls let me know if you would have been running a business what would have been your choice . A cheaper worker or a costlier one . Given this would be a permanent case. So even if this is been stopped for time being i think if we are in a global economy then this will continue . For that matter even a chinese and indian job can get outsourced to a cheaper option. Basic driving factor is price . (Apologies to all the spelling monitors and gramatical experts …. I use english to convey my thoughts so I am not so keen on grammer)
Guys,
Instead of this back and forth Can all of the intellectuals ask themselves a small question.
If an american is skilled and qualified to get a particular IT job, lets say a specialized job dont u think you would be hired?
Or atleast dont you think you would make an effort to be competetive and get hired. Why is that not happening. Heres why..
To begin with how many of you people who are hellbent on getting H1Bs out of this country know SAP.
For instance forget even having the skill to work, just plain knowledge about the Enterprise Software Systems from SAP.
I conducted a small survey of my own and i can tell you not many….that means really not many.1/10. Thats just one software there are million others
Im not trying to undermine anybody’s knowledge but there are somethings that some people are specialized in and have worked for it, I bet most of the H1Bs have a minimum of bachelors degree in Engineering with a huge percentage also having a Masters Degree.
How many of the guys here who are against can boast of such a profile. Be honest and count yourself.
All these big companies that employ H1s do pay handsomely but unfortunately there are these consulting firms that come in between and take a chunk of H1B’s pay. Thats a seperate issue but do understand that no body is cheap labour. And the price of hiring an H1B worker has not been less infact there is a Govt. regulation for the minimum wage for an H1B..thats correct set by the UnitedStates Govt. and if someone does not pay that sum concerned H1B is out of status so by law he is supposed to get such a job to be even holding a H1 visa. So there is no question of cheap labour taking away an expensive american out of job. The standard is higher than what an american employee would demand. So all those folks out there talking about cheap H1B labour have no clue abt the regulation itself or simply they are just imagining that H1s are poor so they work for less.
Regarding helping the economy its common sense that when u are paying taxes here u are indeed helping the country even an outsourced job has a worker going to McDonalds in india for lunch, brushing his teeth with colgate toothpaste, wearing nike shoes, making break fast with pillsbury wheat flour , spends his weekends watching Hollywood’s movies, uses microsoft OS to work, his computers using antivirus firewall software coming out of this country all that revenue all those things mentioned here and million other american products being used sends billions of dollars back home. infact the american companies are only benefitting and benefitting even more with outsourcing. Dont just blame us when The money is going both ways.
H1Bs get the necessary skill and experience in their life to work for the best companies paying the best salaries. If a company in Australia is paying one of you guys a great salary would you not go there , just ask yourself would u not ?? i bet most would even go to mars ..thats how any human would do if he is getting a better offer and pay if he has a life.
If you have guts become more competitive, get back to school, study computers, specialize in software areas…..and if u do get over ur laziness( thats what obama called for during inaugural…dont blame me) i bet you would be easily getting the jobs just like any H1B. Stop being jealous get a life!!!
lets help each other guys there are infinite possibilities, H1bs are not illegal aliens enjoying all the benefits without paying taxes they are legal workers with ambitions in life and qualifications to speak for them.
If you go against H1Bs its true that companies are going to go for a skilled labour elsewhere and the other advantage for them is they dont have to pay as much overthere be it india china turkey or elsewhere ..dont u think these companies would be happy to do that..
so heres the rule of holes, when u are in a hole stop digging
I am an unemployed Software developer. I have 9 yrs 1099 consulting experience with my last position for a fortune 100 Financial firm on Wall St. in NYC. I also have 4 degrees, Computer Science, Network Engineering, A design and Business Management degree (Bachelors levels) , along with DB and Microsoft certifications. I cannot find a job because either I’m overqualified, or my skill set doesn’t exactly match the long list of requirements. I get emails from Recruiters asking for too many technologies, with specific version numbers without understanding that even those languages require several other technologies along side. They ask me to rate myself on scale of “1-10″ which is completely pointless, or to take a supposedly 10 minute, one time, online self evaluation test to see what salary range I fall into. These tests do not take 10 minutes and Computer Science isn’t about memorization. I led a team of 60 on my last position and have solid references on a Linkedin profile from top management but yet this isn’t good enough to find a job even 50% of my last salary.
First off, to the recruiting companies and hiring Managers. You state that you cant find skilled workers, but most of you have no understanding of the actual technologies you are asking for. How do you know that you cant find the skills, when in actuality you have no understanding of the product. You throw languages, products and version numbers around as if one can become experts by picking up a book and reading in 1 week. The Computer Science program includes Mathematics to Calculus 4 or 6, let alone the other complex engineering classes. Most Business and MBA grads take calculus 1 only. This should be an indication to you that brushing up on languages isn’t a weekly affair.
That said, I have worked with a number of H1 employees that never actually had Computer Science Degrees but had only completed Technical courses in specific languages in a few weeks. Most these H1 workers had poor comprehending and communication skills, requiring significant extra time in projects to re-explain things to them. I have also seen several Indian consulting companies based in USA trying to fill positions. They offer me low low rates as if I dont take it, they will give the job to an H1 willing worker. Not only do we need to cap H1 employment, but we also need to cap outsourcing so we can reform American products, quality and service.
‘H1Bs do not take away jobs’
1-1=0 .. not 1-1=1 or 1-1=2, no matter if its 6 months, 6 years or 6 decades, its simple math.
‘outsourcing uses windows in india which sends money here’
if it was not done that way, the windows would be sold here AND employ an american.. you fail to defend anything but selfishness.
‘H1B’s are smarter’
That is simply racist / biggoted. omg thats a horridly pathetic defence. I suppose you are something like Humans Ver_2.5 with PowerBoost.. Superhuman Coders…
Listen… There are respectable defences for H1B however so far this blog has shown nothing but attacks armed with hatred and ignorance.
I, for one, reading this post over the past few weeks have found about 2 people of the dozens that I care to even have read. The lot of the posts here are just blind, ignorant, hateful statements with no basis and all against the people that have spent their lives helping to make this nation that you all say has helped you greatly.
Let me be the first ‘lower level human’ to apoligize for being in your way and using first grade math as well as basic logic. They are tools of the oppressor and should be discarded.
Let me tell you one important and fore most basic thing, I agree that H1B holders are taking some of the jobs away from americans. But the basic reason behind this the vast growth of America in a nut shell is due to allowing various countries talent to grow internally. Can you believe how many of other country people are working in NASA . And all of you know how NASA has brought a big change in various sectors. US has gained a lot by putting all this new opportunuties and the talent of other countries for the benefit of US only . if US has not allowed this kind of immigration process US had not been in the same position as it is today. It would have been 100 years back if the collective talent was not explored and being used by various systems in the country.
‘Anyone’,
I fully agree to that view on H1B, respect it – as well as them for it. Again, I am not saying that they are bad for our nation – I believe in the total opposit! My last three relationships were of H1B, GreenCard and first generation born.
My big point in what I said was not slanting all H1B, just the ones that use ignorant comments and beliefs such as the ones I pointed out.
To the 75% or better of H1B that are out there (who sadly made up very, very little of this blog) I thank you and gladly work along side many of you at my office.
Also note – all the things I pointed out were taken from THIS very blog, I’m simply telling the local drama kids to stfu
I know its a bit higher on this thread (about a half dozen posts up) but I’d like to respond.
Dora,
You clearly say how “there’s at max 450,000 H1B holders at any time”.. You use this to defend that they are not taking any jobs?
Thats more than 1/6 of the city of San Diego.. I would say that if its 1/6, or apx 16%, of a major city, its not a “drop in the sea” its more like a larger boat in a harbor – its a considerable portion.
it’s not about being an indian or an american here.To be absolutely neutral America is a economic superpower and the quality of living is much better here than it is in india.as a result it is logical that most of the students ans software engineers would desire to come here as the prospects are far brighter than what they are in India.the situation has been aggravated by the consulting firms who rob the h1-b employees as well as are the cause for exploitation of the americans.So the government shud propose a bill to ban these consulting firms or formulate some strict guidelines and enact it asap.I have been on H1-B myself and it really pains me to see that a lot of these so called highly skilled workers dont fall into the category.Americans are totally justified in feeling aggrieved about the specific issue i just mentioned.however i would like to emphasize over here that they account for only around 30-35 % of the total population.This is just an assumption and might be proven wrong but the argument cannot be ignored.My final advice is that the economic situation is pretty nasty right now and it requires patience,resolve and dome hard but not hasty steps to come out of this mess that we are in at this moment.
Raj,
You are nailed the problem in the center!
Companies corner the H1B into a position, then this position blocks a citizen from market reasonable options and causes this strain.
I agree 100% with you that the regulations need to have a balance that will keep both sides in fair standing alongside eachother.
From a business view, I would think that the consideration should start with cost. If the company has to pay 80/hr for a citizen:
80/hr x yearly hours = A (citizen catagory)
A – cost of H1B sponsorship = B (H1B catagory)
Thus, to a company if you are in catagory A or B, it is a fair choice based on skills and options.
Thoughts?
Eric,
Before i answer your question i would state over here that i am treading the fair path and not taking anyone’s sides over here.So,people hopefully I presume would not consider my attitude to be partisan.
now coming to your question that salary or anything else cannot be compromised for quality.Knowledge and salary shud be the sole criteria for recruitment and not less salary or more no of hours in office etc.Actually some supervisors shud be appointed to monitor the recruitment process and there shud be strict guidelines which i have already emphasized upon.
As far as salary is concerned a person shud not b penalised for he or she not being a citizen even if they posess the same technical expertise equivalent to a us citizen.it is up to the compny to decide other avenues of deriving profits soughting his help than paying a lesser salary.Equality is what should be practised.
Just to add,’Knowledge and salary shud be the sole criteria for recruitment” shud b read as ‘Knowledge and efficiency shud be the sole criteria for recruitment ”
I totally agree with where you are headed with the criteria for advancement and opportunity.
The reason I altered the pay factor against H1B was not to target them, more to assist them. If the pay was the same in both instances, ignoring the sponsorship costs, then a company would perhaps be less inclined to hire an H1B? That factor was my only reason for the adjustment in the math above. It would keep companies in check and afford them no loss for either employee.
That being said, its a rough figure that would not apply often – it would only be a relative guide. A guide that is not currently in place.
American Ignorance never fails to startle me…..
you people want to sell MS Windows to the people of India and China..but dont want them to work in Microsoft…
For Americans who think tat they are smart… i dont think even one student from u top Univ MIT….can match the intellectual guts..of a kid from (IIT)…
We excel in Math i have seen books from ur high school kinds alleast 2 years behind..than indian High school Math…
U have all felicities still u people have school drop outs how pathetic…epitome of laziness and carelessness…
We stand upside down to secure an Engg /Med seat…U people wont ever be able to learn how the world is …just keep lookking into your well..as we forge ahead….. The time is ours…
Peace
Poster,
(responded to in order of your post)
By “you people” – that doesn’t include me, I don’t have any desires against where someone works as far as specific companies.
Um.. You should see my post about racists and bigots. Smarter and more educated are two different things, plus not everyone in America is lacking an education.
Blame us all for a few weak folks? Another view into your narrow, closed mind which obviously feeds your ego.
We’ll never be able to learn how the world is? “just keep lookking into [our] as well”? Please be more specific, in my closet? my desk drawer?
I am glad that other nations are improving their standings in the world, I really wish that it was fair for everyone, but I don’t think that it should be fed by hatred and cruel feelings.
Peace Love & Happiness to you, I hope you dispose of the anger in your life.
Eric
eric…
“A few weak folks….!!”
facts:
2 out of 3 phds in US are of asian origin
(and ratio further increasing)
first of all stop talking about ego…
come to india sit a call center and hear your fellow americans talk racial then you will realize ..what i mean… if america starts talking about hatred i will be all laughs…bombing innocent people for their oil…(fact india pays 3 time more for oil than america just because we are not a cruel nation like america)and ofcourse we dont spend most of our national income on War..
and
on smarter not smarter i compared the smartest indian kids(IIT) to smartest americans kids(MIT) … because the acceptace ratio for IIT is 200:1 lot tougher than MIT…hece logic dictates tat IIT kids are smarter than MIT kids..
I one more thing i am not sure how aware you are about world politics…india is statigically places between china and pakistan…so america wants friendly relations with india ..recently india signed a non nucliar prolifaration contract to make america happy
….so india has to get some thing back in exchange rit..so few H1 b visas are not a big deal..
all this talk only till dollar apprciation is 40 time more than rupee…once its drops below tat ..americans wont find any h1b r green cards floating here …
inorder for the dollar to remain competent..americans have to start living a conservative life….tats the bottom line
and if you know the law of averages… evry thing evens out..sooner or later…
and thanks but nothanks for your sarcasm ..
peace to You and America
(not being sarcastic like you are)